Pam and I tried our luck again out on the town on a Saturday night in DC. We started off at Townhouse, which is Pam's favorite dive. An hour and two dirty shot glasses later, we headed to Marvin. It was here that I reaffirmed my thoughts about dating in DC. On a Saturday night there was an abundance of attractive, young professionals. What I love about Marvin is that it seems perfectly designed for meeting and conversation. You would think there would be lots of mingling. Instead, as we looked around, all we saw were completely sex-segregated groups. To our left were two women who could pass for models. Behind them, clearly gawking was a group of guys. Not once did the guys make a move. We asked the women if they were single and what they thought about dating in DC. Both were from other countries and said that they found men in the U.S. and especially men in DC very apprehensive when it comes to approaching women. One of them said that the dating scene is completely different in Europe where men easily approach women and strike up conversations. Pam and I were curious as to what the guys would say and decided to ask three attractive, well-dressed guys standing behind us. One was Indian, one Latin American, and the other second-generation African. We figured we would get a good mix of responses. Instead, they were pretty much the same guy. It was almost like they had stepped out of a Benetton ad. One was in "mergers and acquisitions" (whatever that means) and the other even claimed to be an actor on The Wire. They didn't feel the need to approach women and were of the belief that women should be more willing to approach them. Hmmm. I always find it suspect when a guy has decided that women should take the initiative in dating: asking out, paying on a first date, making the first move, etc. All I know is that these guys were typical of so many guys in DC. They seemed way too interested in saving face. Sorry, but being a guy involves some degree of regular rejection. Think I need to take a trip to Europe.
Sphere: Related ContentMonday, February 18, 2008
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28 comments:
I couldn't agree more! Men in DC are unbelievably date lazy, even the good ones! One of my friends always says American men need to grow some balls and I can't agree more! What happened to the guy sweeping the girl off her feet? Now we have to supply our own damn broom!
And we should definitely get together for a drink...I'll email you.
DC Newbie - I love the term "date lazy"! Going to have to borrow that one. And there is no more sweeping off the feet. We might as well be men now! I think I have balls!
you are, i am afraid, the latest chapter in an old story. at least where dc men are concerned... i think men everywhere are potentially intimidated by gorgeous women, but i cannot tell you how many wonderful female friends are alone due the social flaccidity of-how did groucho marx put it-"men of my gender." i am sorry about this...
"Date Lazy" so true, except for the guys with no job or tact, they seem to have no problem talking to women.
Date Lazy is a great coinage. And yeah, I got spoiled living in Spain. Men there are willing to take rejection and don't get crushed by it. I moved back here, and I never was able to recognize when men were interested because they did . . . absolutely nothing. Now, it's part of the screening techniqe. Be willing to fall on your face for me, sort of. If he can't do that, he's never going to fall into (my) bed, that's for darn sure.
in the entry before you wondered where all the shy guys are? mixed signals! guys can't win.
Anonymous- that shy comment was intended as a shout out to the guy who writes Food Rockz if you noticed the link. He commented that he didn't come out on V-day due to his shyness. I'm betting he's a very nice guy though.
Feminism is a double-edged sword.
Dating Men in this area sucks........I have given up on Match.com - it needs to be renamed hookup.com or onenightstand.com
Great Blog by the way
Great Blog and dating in this city totally sucks.
oh, i tried the europe thing this past week -- they're all either gay, unattractive or unavailable. it's depressing in ways i can't explain to you.
on the other hand, french men always cheat, so as long as he's straight and attractive, you're in the money.
Very true. My roommate and I were just saying the other night that the only men who approach us in bars are OLDER MEN. They're not scared of rejection, or of "looking cool," or thinking the women should make the first move or whatever. But the problem with that is...we don't WANT the older men. Craziness!
older men or fuglies, i have to say. yes, we must remember the slacking quotient.
My experience has been. The men who take the initiative, when you're single, have little tact and want a quick lay.
Some men are lazy/afraid and some are simply tired of women in "the scene".
They are probably like I was, too busy enjoying being single to care about trying to hook-up with a woman.
But seriously, once you're in a relationship, all the decent men come a' calling.
Sometimes window-shopping is more fun than stepping into the store...
There's a good reason why men don't approach women in DC - it's because the women are completely nuts! I've seen and experience strangely hostile behavior from so many women in DC, and believe me when I say that the majority of these crazy women are not supermodels by any stretch.
Take this for example: a friend of mine recently asked opened with "hey can I buy you a drink?" Her reply involved yelling and blatant disgust that he would ever dare to approach her. Note that my friend is a good looking, decent guy! I've had similar experiences with random yelling or related smack-downs in response to my approaches to women. I don't give off a creeper vibe and I'm not out to get ass. Yet, I'm met with the most inexplicable hostility.
On the off chance that I do go out with a DC woman, she's always got some absurd list of "rules" that must be followed to avoid her wrath. That, and forget about sex in any reasonable time period.
This all results in a bunch of sexless guys who thus have better things to do than approach a gaggle of women. Their mental power truly is better spent on discussing M&A deals, rather than being yelled at for no normal reason.
As for me, I'm going to see about becoming gay.
Sounds like Junior High School dances all over again, with the boys clustered over there and the girls clustered over here and very little dancing of any kind.
Sounds like Junior High School dances all over again, with the boys clustered over there and the girls clustered over here and very little dancing of any kind.
Anonymous: Everyone's completely nuts sometimes or another, not just every single woman in DC (from your experience . . .?). A man who wants a date needs to be able to risk and deal with rejection. Obviously, if he's too fragile, tender, delicate, or easily bruised, he should definitely stay home with his smelling salts. Or maybe sniff some piss and vinegar or something restorative.
If a woman yelled at your friend for offering to buy her a drink, he should feel lucky: he didn't have to waste his money to find out she's a weirdo. But him being good-lucking doesn't mean he's got social skills or is desirable to everyone. Most men buying a woman a drink have done a little flirting in advance to test the waters. Or, for a less risky approach, just ask the bartender/waiter to bring her the drink she's drinking, pay, tip, and then toast her when she's given it. For the delicate of spirit, that might help.
In dating, we all suffer indignities. Normally, that's just letting you know that you've gotten your early warning sign. No need to debate or cast aspersions on all the people of a gender in the city.
Good luck with going gay (I'm pretty sure it's hard wired). And I'm sure that will work really well, because gay men always treat each other with politeness and respect. It's part of the culture and it's universal, right? Probably part of the Gay Agenda, whatever that is.
Re: "Or, for a less risky approach, just ask the bartender/waiter to bring her the drink she's drinking, pay, tip, and then toast her when she's given it. For the delicate of spirit, that might help."
This is one highly amusing strategy. What man in his right mind would go randomly paying for a woman's crap? Oh, that's right, a completely beta-male.
Quote for the day: "Treat em rough and you'll get your muff" - aka - never buy a woman anything!
Uh, the guy who posted the last anonymous post will never get laid!
Um, ladies, buck up and bust a move yourself. Try this line: "Hi" (accompanied with smile). Your dating opportunities will expand exponentially, or at least arithmetically.
These days, I've learned not to waste time beating around the bush. If a girl tells me she isn't into anal and getting spanked, I'm not gonna bother asking for her number.
I stumbled upon your blog via dcblogs and then ended up at this entry. Obviously I’m not a regular reader, so sorry if I am off base here, but it sounds like the gist of your writing focuses on the trials and tribulations of your explorations of the DC bar scene as you look for a mate. I am not a typical DC dweller, so take this with a grain of salt...
As a 30-year-old man, I would never go to a bar or club in the DC area and expect to meet a woman whom I would consider dating. A grocery store, museum, book store, grad school, church – maybe – though I don’t go to those places looking for a date.
I have always viewed the DC night life as nothing more than a meat market. Men are going there to get laid and women generally recognize this and go there to choose which of those men to have sex with. The women often dress like prostitutes and the men dress like fools. Between arriving there and hooking up, they drown their brain cells in overpriced, watered-down drinks, dulling the sense of how awkward the experience is. Perhaps some hold a far-fetched illusion of this being the start of a healthy, romantic relationship, but it never pans out. My presumption has been that the women are generally successful in finding guys to follow them home for the night and bed them. But, maybe I am wrong.
I recognize that some women are truly there to find a nice guy because they can’t seem to meet any at work/school/elsewhere. However, I don’t go looking for women in DC bars and clubs for the same reason that I don’t go looking for hardware supplies at Best Buy. The odds of finding what you’re looking for are greater than zero, but still pretty bleak. Bars and clubs anywhere, but especially in DC, never struck me as the place where education, life experiences, or ability to engage in discussion about something other than pop culture would be much of an asset. Given those expectations, what is the incentive to approach any woman there? On the rare occasion that I go to a bar in DC, I am just there to have a few drinks and a bite to eat without the hassle of doing dishes, to relax, and that’s about it. Again, I am not a typical DC dweller, so maybe my view is not representative of those guys who you are frustrated at for not approaching you.
I think that you're simply making a mistake by looking in the wrong places.
Saint in Exile- as the subtitle states, this blog is about my nightlife adventures as a single woman in DC. It is NOT about my quest to find a mate. Don't know what you mean exactly, but if you mean dates, I find them all the time and some of my posts are about the ones I have. You seem confused about the point of this post. At a bar or club, the expectation is to mix and mingle even just for conversation, not necessarily to hook up. My observation is that men in DC often don't do this even in a setting where this is expected. When I go out to bars it's for many of the same reasons you mentioned: to eat, relax, catch a game, meet up with friends, etc. I have also met people of all kinds with various motives just like I do in any setting. I don't go anywhere looking for men, but I do meet them. Last year I met men in a bar, at a restaurant, at concerts, at work, in a bookstore, in the grocery store, while walking to the train, on the train, and in the past at school. And the guys I meet in these other environments are just as likely to be after sex. The idea that there are better quality people in places other than bars is just false. The same people you would see at work, school, the grocery store, etc. can be the same people who frequent bars. And you can also find women who dress like prostitutes and men like fools anywhere you go!
My perspective on guys not just openly approaching women with regularity is that the body language and receptivity of women here discourages it. I've spent a lot of time overseas and women in the countries I've had a chance to socialize in have been much more open and inviting with body language (a laugh, a smile, not turning their backs, etc.). I can't discount that perhaps they knew I was not a local and that made me a bit more intriguing, but I've observed it with local-to-local conversations as well. Maybe a field test (for entertainment/conversation...not for hook-ups) is in order--head to the same bars with a group of girls and just make a conscious effort to appear approachable (not saying that anyone should be giving the f-me eyes..., but just be friendly and not be afraid to look a guy in his eyes)... I think you'd find more guys approaching ...
Ok this is a really old blog post that I found randomly. I'm 32 and in NYC. I gather it's similar to DC in the dating scene - lots of overeducated people, mediocre looking women who think they're models, and guys who don't approach. Before I moved to NYC, I used to approach easily. But living here, women seem really, really standoffish. They walk down the street in a huff, ears plugged with their Ipods, and they look like they don't want any interaction. They never, ever smile. It's funny - it's actually tougher to meet women, even though there are so many around.
Because women are standoffish and bitchy, it causes men like myself to be an asshole, and forget about being nice to women at all. It also discourages us from approaching, because we are tired of having to do all the fucking work. You women need to give us better signals - and you need to be more apporachable and friendly in general. I'm 5'10, athletic, educated, and far from a hobbit. But rejection sucks, and enough of it will make any guy forget it...women do need to start taking some initiative and be more open to guys outside their social group.
Unless, you know, you're ok being single still at 40.
Agreed. Guys need to step up the game and stop this silly "tit for tat, since-she-wanna-be-equal" revenge nonsense. Iz ya been having the fine women approach you, mister? LOL NO! Get with the program and stop saying I'm so cute but dont ask for my number. I'm not curious now - just annoyed at the waste of my time! :P Facebook posted ya, Miss Citygirl, nice blog!
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